I’ve been thinking a lot about what Maghrebism said, “Why can’t a Moroccan share the same views as Sarkozy, based on her own evaluation and experience?” I think I spend so much time trying to convince others that all Moroccans aren’t corrupt/possible terrorists/grasping thieves, that my expectations are skewed to the positive. I admit that Ms. Dati (see below) should be allowed to make up her own mind, but I don’t believe that personal political beliefs can be entirely divorced from background and cultural values. It’s not about color, so maybe I shouldn’t have used “oreo,” it’s rather inflammatory.
That brings up the whole tangled problem of immigration. Jill states, [bolds mine] "I tend to agree with Sarkozy on immigration; for both France and the US. I don’t see why any country should allow illiterate people or unskilled workers in at this point in time. They will not help the economy, nor will they benefit the country in any other way. I hate the US “Diversity Lottery” - it seems like every year, I meet the stupidest Moroccans at the Consulate who received their visa because of it. Hardly any of them speak English. The cyber cafes in Meknes have English speakers who volunteer (or get paid) to fill out applications in English for others. Doesn’t anyone else see how this kind of immigration is harmful?"
You know what I think is harmful? There are far more serious immigration problems than “stupid” Moroccans, such as Indian companies in the U.S. that hog over 30% of H1-B visas. [...nine Indian companies are amongst the highest users of H-1B visas — between them they used 19,512 of H-1B visas (or 30% of the 65,000 visas allowed) in 2006. {link}] I could go on, but this would end up being a very long post.
As for the poor Moroccans, the problem is not that they’re stupid, but how to integrate them into society when they get here. I don’t believe that I can determine someone’s future capacity to contribute to American society based on their lack of English skills – one would hope they’d have an opportunity to improve once they arrived.
P.S. I thank God that my carte de sejour was not based on how much darija or French I spoke, because I would have surely been rejected.
Jill
May 22, 2007 at 7:22 am
While I don’t disagree with you about the H1-B visa issue, I still don’t see why we’re giving “diversity” visas based on absolutely no entry criteria!
1,000 Nigerians are granted diversity visas each year, for example. 300 Moroccans or so. The list goes on. While those people are getting visas for doing absolutely nothing, there are people with MA degrees who cannot get a visa to even visit the US. Personally, my husband’s visa has been delayed for nearly six months – get this – because of some new act Bush signed, they had to take extra time to run my records to make sure I’m not a sex offender. Sounds okay, except that they ONLY do that for the I-130 petition for family member (which is only accessible if the American lived in the foreign country at least six months prior to marriage, which of course I did).
So pardon me if I’m a little irritated, but I think that people with genuine reasons for immigration should be given priority over those who just happened to win a freaking contest.
Jill
May 22, 2007 at 7:25 am
and p.s. the carte d’sejour thing – well, that’s the equivalent of a temporary worker in the US having to speak English, which most don’t – not exactly equal to full immigration.
Felix
May 22, 2007 at 8:23 am
I agree with you, actually. I hate that people who try to do things legally have to wait eons, while others who take some kind of other route are already in the States. I know so many Moroccans here who came on student or visitor visas, then just let them lapse and stayed. There’s a lot of immigration reform that needs to happen…for example, I wouldn’t mind if they lowered the amount of visas for the diversity program, if that meant they had more time to give to reviewing other types, such as the I-130. Hamou and I went through that, too, BTW – I think they called it a “CONDOR” check, or something. At the time, though, they were only running checks on HIM, not me, lol.
However, to say that “stupid” Moroccans who can’t speak English shouldn’t get visas, and wouldn’t contribute to society – that’s pretty harsh, but I understand where your frustration is coming from.
I don’t believe the temporary worker visa here is equivalent to the carte de sejour, unless I’m reading the descriptions wrong. Mine, obviously, was based on marriage, not employment.
Cat in Rabat
May 22, 2007 at 6:07 pm
Jill’s comment “I don’t see why any country should allow illiterate people or unskilled workers in at this point in time” is well-taken and in my reading of her comments, she’s not equating intelligence with literacy. As Westerners in Morocco, we received cartes de sejour because we had a skill set as well as letters of employment. Why should this be any different for immigrants to the US?
Felix
May 22, 2007 at 7:20 pm
Er, she said “stupid[est]” Moroccans. That’s a comment about lack of intelligence, unless I misunderstood her.
My carte de sejour was NOT based on employment, but marriage – so my skill set and potential employment contribution weren’t factors.
Jill
May 23, 2007 at 8:26 am
I said I meet the stupidest Moroccans at the consulate. That does not make all illiterate Moroccans stupid, nor does it make all uneducated Moroccans unworthy of visas – these are just the Moroccans I happen to meet there each time (and Hamza too has said this).
As for mine and Cat’s jobs – we must have a university degree now (if, let’s say, we were new hires) to work as English teachers in Morocco.
I don’t like the concept of the diversity visa and that won’t change. I think that education should be given preference – those seeking it in the US and those who have it already – when deciding who gets a visa. I also think that English skills should be a priority – either before or immediately after arrival in the US. As it stands right now, the United States has weak requirements for English learning, whereas most of Western Europe requires you to learn the language within a period of time.
Felix
May 23, 2007 at 10:32 am
The diversity program is completely separate from visas provided to students, etc… I wouldn’t have a problem with the number of visas for the DV being lowered to allow more for student or other types of visas. However, to try to put some kind of qualification on the DV such as education would defeat the purpose entirely – it’s a LOTTERY, not a contest.
I agree with you that English language skills should be a priority after the recipients arrive – but I also think there should be a lot more monitoring of how they’re integrating themselves into the community, if they’re finding jobs, etc…
I do understand how the work-related carte de sejour was obtained, I was just pointing out that mine does not presume that I have any valid contribution to Moroccan society – other than increasing the population, perhaps!
As for the Moroccans you meet at the consulate…perhaps they _were _a bit stupid, but they were better than the ones who cozy up to 60+ year old ladies and convince them to marry.
Shaheen
May 23, 2007 at 9:07 pm
Jill,
I am glad Sarkozy won, but I definitely can’t say it’s because of his immigration policies. I mean, I definitely don’t support the French left position on it, which is totally irrational, but Sarkozy’s measures so far haven’t been more than irrational tightenings that affected equally pretty much anyone. There’s no rational policy (a la Canada, Australia, etc.) where skilled immigrants can come without being treated like criminals.
Felix
May 23, 2007 at 9:31 pm
Shaheen – Which policies of Sarkozy’s do you approve of? I don’t know that much about his other political positions.
Shaheen
May 23, 2007 at 11:47 pm
Well, I mainly support him on economic questions I’d say, which IMO are the most important right now, even though he’s far from perfect… A choice by default, the left having absolutely nothing to offer but pre-91 receipts. The general offer in the French political scene is rather mediocre unfortunately.
iptisame
May 25, 2007 at 3:15 pm
I have one thing to say :people don’t choose were they are born ,so we can say that we are very happy and lucky to mive were we live ,so Sarkozy doesn’t have to forget that when he makes rules about the immigration,the world is for everybody,itare the humans who made the borders ,the world belongs to everybody!
Felix I saw a picture of a friend of yours ,can you tell me how I can get in contact with her?:p